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| In The Beginning . . . | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 18, 2012, 2:06 pm (2,468 Views) | |
| BHIles | May 18, 2012, 2:06 pm Post #1 |
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. . . God. i've been waiting for this new board. I have been kind of quiet as of late, learning and going through natural life changes that has brought some new perspective about what we call spiritual and physical. These things have only cemented my faith that brought me to Christ as a 4 year old but with new understanding of what it means to be a human born of God, the depth of our warfare and the eternality of our souls. I'm going on a journey into a discussion/teaching about the existence of all things from quatum physics, time and the vapor we live in to eternity. I would love for others to come along. Some things may get a tiny bit deep but only to bring it back to a practical application for our daily lives. |
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| carmen | May 18, 2012, 8:18 pm Post #2 |
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Sounds interesting :): |
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| barb43 | May 20, 2012, 10:51 am Post #3 |
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Wish Martha Stewart was My Sister!
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I would be interested in this . . . Only problem is having the time, but I'll try to keep up and participate. |
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| raml | May 24, 2012, 10:53 pm Post #4 |
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I am interested too. I do have the time now being retired does have some advantages. |
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| Servant | May 24, 2012, 11:42 pm Post #5 |
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Official Taste Tester
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:clap |
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| Hootmon | May 25, 2012, 2:31 am Post #6 |
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Ill devote some time to something like that, Brent. |
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| BHIles | June 4, 2012, 11:34 am Post #7 |
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In The Beginning God God of Creation Who Is HE Who Are "They" What are His attributes - Omniscience - Omnipresence - Omnipotent - Glory - Eternal God - Triune at Creation In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 Clearly here we have God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:1-4 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. IMPORTANT FOR LATER Colossions 1:12-17 Clearly a Triunity was not an afterthought. Jesus was not created. Re 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. The Plural Godhead is Alpha and Omega. So here we are in the BEGINNING. There is no time yet established for earth. It is the beginning of all we as man know and God is in plural existant outside if "Time" begininning a structure of our creation. Now Let's take note of attributes of God that we know of Him A God of Omniscience at His will A God of Omnipresence at His will A God of Omnipotence at His will Alpha and Omega A Creator who creates time must be one Who lives outside of Time Glory A God in Glory as His Clothing We can discuss each of these and how the Bible Shows these attributes being put on and taken off at will. Thoughts? Next: Why Creation Why Man Why the Word of God Edited by BHIles, June 4, 2012, 11:43 am.
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| Esther | June 5, 2012, 5:35 pm Post #8 |
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This discussion will probably get too deep for me, but I'll try to participate, too. When Adam and Eve ate the apple and became aware of their nakedness, they hid from God. God walked through the garden looking for them and even asked who told them they were naked. Did Got suppress His attributes so Adam and Eve would have to admit (confess) their sin? |
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| BHIles | June 5, 2012, 11:43 pm Post #9 |
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One thing about God I find incredibly delightful is God has reserved for Himself a sense of discovery. God place a divine attribute in man that was an attribute that only a creator can give. CHOICE. God placed in man the ability to choose. Now that is quite a big God who would create a being that was allowed to choose even if that choice was against God. God could never receive true love unless an intelligent being had the choice not to love Him. With that freedom of choice God also through omniscience and justice that if that choice was made against Him that there would be included in the program a redemption. The very redemption story is told right from Genesis 1. I will show the story in future posts. But to answer the question it seems that the omniscienc of God creating man with choice, God limited His knowing man would sin to having a plan built in the program for a redemption if man chose to disobey. I will post examples of this self limited omniscience in a future post. There are quite a few clear examples of such that make the supposition that at creation God may have used this to enjoy the discovery of what an intelligence out side of Himself might do. BTW the fruit is unknown. Just for accuracy. :nerd And I want to address Nakedness in a little bit also because I don't think it is what we think it is. Edited by BHIles, June 5, 2012, 11:48 pm.
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| Hootmon | June 6, 2012, 8:14 am Post #10 |
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All three 'omni' attributes have their source outside of the creation. In fact, the very notion of onmipresence is meaningless 'before' the Beginning. There wasnt any 'place' yet. You could say that omnipresence is 'embedded' within the other two, and was an emergent (if you will excuse the term) property of the created universe. Edited by Hootmon, June 6, 2012, 8:15 am.
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| Esther | June 10, 2012, 7:45 am Post #11 |
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In Genesis 4 9-10, again God is limiting His omniscience after Cain kills Abel. He asks where Abel is and what Cain has done. What I see so far is these limits seem to coincide with acts of sin. I look forward to seeing your examples, to learn what other types of instances this happens in. |
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| LadySharon | June 12, 2012, 9:08 pm Post #12 |
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Cat Lady
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I tend to see this as like a parent asking a 4 year old if he knows who broke the vase---- all while knowing the 4 year old did it. I do believe that God can put limits on Himself, however. I hate it when people refuse to try to answer the question of weather or not God can create a rock he cannot lift. I've seen that as supposedly a trap question asked by atheists... but I do believe there is a way it can be answered. |
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| BHIles | June 14, 2012, 2:31 pm Post #13 |
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Could be however the following is an example of when God truly did limit His omniscience to discover what another intellect would do. Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Lest we try to redefine what "to see" means in this context let's see how it is used in another place. The Hebrew word האר or ra’ah. Used about Noah Ge 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; Again האר "to see" In its truest sense, without preconceived notions about God's already knowing we can see God reserves for Himself a sense of discovery just as Noah wanted to see if there was dry land yet. I find that a truly unique concept that God is "OMNI" by Choice and not by Law |
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| Kem | August 31, 2012, 12:59 pm Post #14 |
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First is have to say that Colossians is one of my favorite books and this passage 1:12-17 one of my favorite passages. This in particular....Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: I don't understand however where the idea that God limited His omniscience might come from. Have never heard this before except as it pertains to Jesus in His earthly body. Can you explain this a bit more please? |
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| suzugos | January 22, 2013, 12:15 pm Post #15 |
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But does Genesis 1:1 really describe original creation? Gen 1:1 בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃ “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” The Hebrew the verse sets forth a series of patterns. For instance, there are seven words consisting of 28 consonants. The Hebrew alphabet consists of 22 consonants. Eleven, exactly half of those letters are used in Gen.1:1. There are also three nouns which are arrayed according to pattern. First, the proper noun for God, אלהים (Elohim) is plural indicating three or more. New Testament doctrine allows us to understand this plurality of the One God as revealed in three Persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus the Trinity is seen in the very first verse of God’s special revelation. Second, the word for “heavens”, שׁמים (Shamiym) is double noun and the first direct object of God’s creation in verse one. A Hebrew double usually indicates a pair of things like shoes, but the Hebrew double also describes things in a corresponding relationship. On the second day, God created a vertical expanse between the waters. This He called the “heavens” using the same Hebrew word, שׁמים (Shamiym). On the forth day He set the celestial lights in the heavens which include the stars. Thus we surmise the double heavens are firstly, the blue atmosphere surrounding the earth with clouds and secondly, the corresponding vast of expanse of space above the atmosphere between the celestial systems. These God created in the six days with the earth. Thirdly, the word for “earth” ארץ (Aretz) is a normal singular indicating only one earth as the last direct object of God’s creation described in verse one. But we are forced to understand Genesis 1:1 as describing God’s creation at the beginning of His special revelation. It does not encompass the entirety of God’s creation, nor the first of His creative acts. Deuteronomy 10:14 “Behold, unto Jehovah thy God belongeth the heavens and the heaven of heavens, the earth, with all that is therein.” In Deut.10:14 the Hebrew words for, “the heavens and the heaven of heavens” are: השׁמים ושׁמי השׁמים (haShamiym veShamay haShamiym). That is, Jehovah owns the heavens using the same double noun for heavens as in Genesis 1:1; and thus the same heavens described there. He also owns the Heaven (singular) of the heavens (double). Considering this construction, I am reminded of Exodus 26:33 where God instructs Moses that, ”the veil shall separate unto you between the holy place and the most holy.” There the comparison is between the Holy place, הקדשׁ (haQodesh) and the Holy of the Holies, קדשׁ הקדשׁים (Qodesh haQodeshim) and gives precedence to the Holy of Holies behind the veil where the Ark was situated. Thus was vaguely seen in the shadow of heavenly things, the very Heaven of the Heavens, the place of God’s abode where Christ now sits upon the right hand of the Majesty on High (Heb.1:3 & 8:1). Greater in precedence than the atmosphere and celestial double heavens of Genesis, the Heaven of the Heavens corresponds to the third heaven described by the Apostle Paul (2Co.12:2) which is Paradise and the abode of God Himself. This singular Heaven of the Heavens in Deuteronomy 10:14 is not in view in God’s act of creation in Genesis 1:1. This singular Heaven of the Heavens preexisted God’s creation in six days described in Genesis chapter one. God asked Job: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:4-7 What were those morning stars who sang together and these sons of God which shouted for joy at God’s laying the foundations of the earth? They certainly were already in place to witness and to rejoice at God’s creation of the earth. They must have been intelligent to have understood God’s plan in order to rejoice over its beginning that it would ultimately bring glory unto Himself. It seems reasonable to conclude those referenced are the heavenly host of angelic beings elsewhere mentioned in scripture which rejoiced (Luke 2:13) at the birth of that Holy One, God made flesh; the God-Man and last Adam, even our Lord Jesus Christ - given to be the Savior of fallen men! Thus it appears that heavenly host which indwells the third heaven; where the throne of the Almighty is also existed before God’s creation of the earth. They being beings created by the same אלהים (Elohim) in eternity past are also not encompassed by the statement of God's creation in Genesis chapter 1. συζυγος της εικονομαχίας |
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