MrsBarnes January 6th, 2007 12:30 PM
Nevermind I found it, looks like one was born in 2002. Is that the one he's talking about?
Caver January 6th, 2007 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsBarnes (Post 3728790)
Nevermind I found it, looks like one was born in 2002. Is that the one he's talking about?
Doubt it. There have been many born but as they mature most develop at least one white or black hair. That disqualifies them.
Also, doubt that the location would be let out. That would be a state secret considering how hard the other side might try and kill a red heffier without blemish.
Joel January 6th, 2007 02:50 PM
This place has some interesting articles which join together at the end of each article/page.
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p216.htmlemory January 6th, 2007 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacey (Post 3728776)
Jimmy lives in Israel and is a christian...He is pre-trib.
He is on the radio here every afternoon for just 15 mins. He also had a program on Sun. morning one time with another man..I forget the show but he is good.he studies prophecy
Actually Jimmy DeYoung lives in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He lived in Israel for several years, but now resides here in the US. He does travel to Israel a lot as he and Mart DeHaan produce the program, "Day of Discovery," often from the Holy Land.
dramama January 6th, 2007 02:53 PM
Joel,
doesn't the red heifer have to be at least two years old? Is there an age limit (like it can't be over 5)?
GloryBound January 6th, 2007 03:14 PM
Three years old I think.
Joel January 6th, 2007 03:20 PM
John Gill (Numbers 19:2)
that they bring thee a red heifer; or "young cow", for so the word properly signifies; one of two years old, as the Targum of Jonathan, and so says the Misnah (s); though some of the Rabbins say one of three years, or of four years, or even one of five years old, would do.
Joel January 6th, 2007 03:23 PM
For what its worth, Abraham was ordered to offer the following before God...
Genesis 15:9 ~ And He said to him, Bring to Me a heifer three years old, a she-goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
ChayilWoman January 6th, 2007 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel (Post 3728598)
Interestingly enough, The 'Altar of the Red Heifer' - where the Red heifer was sacrificed, was always furthest eastward from the Camp/Tabernacle/Temple.
It is also believed this may have been one and the same spot with where Christ was crucified (upon the Mt. of Olives) -- Christ fulfilling the 'Red Heifer' sacrifice, among other prophetic things.
This is a little bit of a sidenote from the OP, which is very interesting on its own, but...
Not only was the Holy of Holies in the western part of the tabernacle, but the tribe of Judah was by the eastern gate. Beth Moore states in her study The Patriarchs "Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, is our holy transport from our wandering and unbelief to the promises of God."
Joel January 6th, 2007 03:27 PM
Exactly!
Christ was abandoned to the 'furthest point' from God's presence... (in the east, upon the Red heifer altar) and He brings us through the Kingly, Royal Gate... into the very Holy Presence of God in the far west (the place of the glory of the Sun setting -- a picture of God's shekinah presence -- and also the time when Christ resurrected; Sunset)
Joel January 6th, 2007 03:31 PM
As I have noted in my Antiquities thread, among other places...
this also explains, and ehances one's understanding of why Adam and Eve were banished 'eastward' of the Garden of Eden (God's blueprint and original 'Temple' and Dwelling Place)... and why Cain was banished eastward, even further, to the land of 'Nod' (wandering).
going East depicts one departing the presence of God. One coming from the east, into the West -- depicts one returning to the presence of God (for God's Holy of Holies is situated in the far west of the Temple building)
Joel January 6th, 2007 03:40 PM
the sun in it's 12 hour course through the heavens above us is never seen going eastward. it always rises in the east, and sets forth for the west.
the dawning of the sun, and the course of the sun, and the setting of the sun... all prophetic. even nature itself shows forth the glory, truths, and wisdom of God and his redemptive plans.
HouTex January 6th, 2007 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel (Post 3729139)
the sun in it's 12 hour course through the heavens above us is never seen going eastward. it always rises in the east, and sets forth for the west.
the dawning of the sun, and the course of the sun, and the setting of the sun... all prophetic. even nature itself shows forth the glory, truths, and wisdom of God and his redemptive plans.
Great observation!
I'd like to hear the evolutionist folks explain that....well, actually not.
ChayilWoman January 6th, 2007 04:40 PM
And which direction is it that Muslims face when they pray? :confused Oh yeah, the east. ;):
Joel January 6th, 2007 06:40 PM
towards mecca, actually. so it varies. but point taken. :B:
floAty January 6th, 2007 08:51 PM
these last posts made me remeber the verse ..something to do with 'who is this that comes from the east..(bosrah?) ...or something to that effect......?
not that that has anything to do with the price of eggs...but anyhoo...off to bed i go :doh
Joel January 6th, 2007 09:18 PM
Indeed... Christ is seen as coming from the east, because He is going westward... to land feet upon the mt. of Olives.. to walk through the Eastern gate (Where Judah was situated -- on the Eastern side of the Tabernacle) -- and to set up dwelling in the (millennial) Temple.
Hootmon January 6th, 2007 09:22 PM
Awsome!
Joel January 6th, 2007 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by floAty (Post 3729433)
these last posts made me remeber the verse ..something to do with 'who is this that comes from the east..(bosrah?) ...or something to that effect......
Isaiah had a revelation of our Lord's second appearing. :):
Isaiah 63
WHO IS this Who comes from Edom, with crimson-stained garments from Bozrah [in Edom]? This One Who is glorious in His apparel, striding triumphantly in the greatness of His might?
It is I, [the One] Who speaks in righteousness [proclaiming vindication], mighty to save!
Why is Your apparel splashed with red, and Your garments like the one who treads in the winepress?
I have trodden the winepress alone, and of the peoples there was no one with Me. I trod them in My anger and trampled them in My wrath; and their lifeblood is sprinkled upon My garments, and I stained all My raiment. For the day of vengeance was in My heart, and My year of redemption [the year of My redeemed] has come. And I looked, but there was no one to help; I was amazed and appalled that there was no one to uphold [truth and right]. So My own arm brought Me victory, and My wrath upheld Me. I trod down the peoples in My anger and made them drink of the cup of My wrath until they were intoxicated, and I spilled their lifeblood upon the earth.
Joel January 6th, 2007 09:26 PM
it smacks of jubilee allusions, if you ask me. The year the Lord returns will be a 'true jubilee', IMHO. A 'setting free of the captives'. Probably starting anew the jubilee cycle since its been discontinued and lost for millennia.
Just like His ministry the first time could have began on a jubilee (circa Fall 27 AD -- considering He most likely was crucified in Spring 31 AD)
(Edit) -- not only that, but IMHO, the year the Lord returns is when a 'public reading' of the Torah will occur, once the true Torah (Dabar) -- WORD of God is in humanity's presence.
According to Deuteronomy, a reading was scheduled 'every 7 years'. IMHO, Christ will fulfill this at the end of Jacob's 'week of trouble'.
It will be the beginning of the 7th day, and the glorious knowledge and shekinah of God's anointed One will spread over the earth.
Hootmon January 6th, 2007 09:32 PM
Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.
(Exo 3:1)
"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
(Mat 24:27)
Joel January 6th, 2007 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootmon (Post 3729455)
he led the flock to the west side... the mountain of God.
Never noticed that before. :thumb
Quote:
For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Precisely.
Joel January 6th, 2007 10:08 PM
some conversations regarding the Red heifer...
http://www.haydid.org/gary1.htmQuote:
We are continuing the thought that: The crucifixion of Christ is stated in the New Testament to have occurred on the Mt. of Olives... how this relates to the Ashes of the Red Heifer (Numbers 19) and Yom Kippur (Leviticus 16).
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Concepts from previous letters...
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* 1) The ash from all cremated sin offerings from the Temple on Mt. Moriah are taken to the top of the Mt. of Olives to the place called the "Miphkad Altar", "Without the Camp", the "Appointed Place", the "Place of Accounting", a "Clean Place" and other references. (See the books of Leviticus, Numbers, the Midrash section on the Red Heifer and Talmud.)
* 2) The Bullocks or Beasts, whose blood is used in the Temple on Mt. Moriah, are cremated at the same site where the Ashes are taken from all cremated sin offerings on Mt. Moriah, (see the Book of Leviticus).
* 3) The Red Heifer was always cremated, at the same site in orientation directly to the "Face of God" and always DID!
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All sin representation in the form of cremations ended up at the Altar on the top of the Mt. of Olives--this represented total separation from God. The altar has no physical description given in the Bible but the Midrash states it was an "Altar (hole) in the ground". This means that when the Ashes of the Red Heifer were collected, ash from all of the other offerings would have been represented in the Red Heifer's Ash! The Red Heifer's Ash became the representation of ALL sin offerings!
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The Red Heifer was cremated looking into the "Face of God" i e the area of the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy of Holies. The Ashes of the Red Heifer were used on a daily basis in the Temple system in order to allow daily access to the outer Holies where the Menorah, the Table of Shew Bread and the Altar of Incense stood. To enter this area the Priest, such as Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist (Luke 1:5-11), would have to first pass the Blood Sacrifice and then the Water Purification, ("Cleansing" is not a proper translation as there is a major difference between Jewish "Cleansing", "Mikvah" or "Purification"). The Ashes of the Red Heifer were used in the Tabernacle or Temple on a DAILY basis! But the higher form of use was then on the most Holy Day, Yom Kippur, when the Priest was to enter the Most Holy Place where the Ark of the Covenant was placed. Without the Ashes of the Red Heifer there was NO access to the Temple, there was NO access to the presence of God!
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How does this then relate to the crucifixion of Christ who fulfilled the Law giving us total access back to the presence of God?
We can start with the typology of the heifer. Biblically and historically the Heifer was always provided by God..so was Christ. Man never genetically breed for a heifer..neither was Christ. God always provided the sacrifice.. (sounds like the offering of Isaac..could this be a Biblical principal?) and the heifer sacrifice had to be pure having no blemishes, approximately 3 and 1/2 years of age, blood red (no more than three black or white hairs), virgin (pure without sin) and never having had a yoke (the result of the curse of sin). Can we relate these to Christ?
Relating the typology of the Temple:
Hebrews 13:10 states "we have an altar where no man may eat", (Leviticus chapter six verse thirty), "where the bodies of the beasts or bullocks are cremated, whose blood is used in the sanctuary by the high priest for sin".
The next statement is "Wherefore Jesus also"....
****The author of the book of Hebrews just told the site of the crucifixion, "without the camp"..."a clean place", i e the Miphkad Altar (Hebrews 13:12-13) on the top of the Mt. of Olives, to the East of Moriah, but looking directly back to God as represented in the Temple! Does this then mean that Christ became THE Red Heifer fulfillment? And as Judaism calls the ashes of the Red Heifer mixed with water "Living Water" does this then mean that Christ became THE Living Water?
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* 1) All ash from the Temple Courtyard on Mt. Moriah representing sin are taken to the Depressed (hole in the ground) Altar (Midrash section on the Red Heifer), on the top of the Mt. of Olives, called "Miphkad".
* 2) At the same Altar on the Mt. of Olives the bodies are cremated (the bullocks) whose blood is used in the Temple, (book of Leviticus). (The blood--spiritual authority in the Temple; the bodies --flesh dealt with outside the camp, ...sound familiar?)
* 3) The Red Heifer was offered at the same Altar on the top of the Mt. of Olives, whose location was established by Moses in the wilderness, i e always to the East, in front of the "Face of God", called "a clean place" "outside the camp", (book of Leviticus, Numbers and the Midrash). The same terminologies and locations were true in Jerusalem with the "Temple" vs. the "Tabernacle" of the Wilderness. Therefore the Ashes of the Red Heifer had the ashes mixed in of the Bullocks and ALL other sin offerings by cremation from the Temple site! The Red Heifer's Ash was then the sum TOTAL of all sin offerings by cremation!
* 4) The Ashes of the Red Heifer were used on a daily basis (book of Leviticus and Numbers) for access to the outer Holy Place of either the Tabernacle or Temple!
* 5) On the most Holy Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur (book of Leviticus), the Ashes of the Red Heifer were used to enter the area of the Ark of the Covenant, whether the Ark was there or not. No Ashes.....no access to God.
The Ashes spoke of total sin but total Redemption, of Reconciliation, of Relationship to God and His presence (which Christ became!).
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Observations from Biblical Scriptures:
Two Altars -- One on Mt. Moriah, for the Jewish Temple; One on the Mt. of Olives, also for the Jewish Temple.
The use of the Altar on the Mt. of Olives gave access to the Temple on Mt. Moriah.
Without the Altar on the Mt. of Olives there was absolutely no ability to enter the Temple on Mount Moriah. Scriptures portray the Mt. of Olives splitting when the foot of Christ touches the Mountain, at His return. Reason: In order that there will not be two Altars when the Messiah is in Residence in the Temple, i e the sun when it rises each morning hits the Mt. of Olives first before the Temple Mount until the Messiah is in the Temple.
Psalm 19 starts with a "General Revelation" of God through creation.
In Judaism the Mt. of Olives is called the "Mountain of the Messiah" or the "Mountain of Light". This is because of the light of the sun first hitting the Mt. of Olives at sunrise. When the Messiah is in residence in the Temple then there is no need for a second Altar, which gives access to the Temple.
The Messiah is the access!
Creation, Nature confirms, agrees and reveals, the stated plans of Biblical Scripture, Psalm 19 is an example. Judaism declares that when the Messiah is in residence, in the Temple, then the light of the sun cannot hit the Mt. of Olives first before shining on the Messiah. The Messiah will enter the Temple from the Mt. of Olives where He first touches with His foot, therefore the mountain is called the "Mountain of the Messiah". After the Messiah leaves the Mt. of Olives, going West towards the Mount Moriah Temple, the Light from the Sun then has to shine first on the Temple site where He will be in Residence!
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The Altar on the Top of the Mount of Olives (where the Red Heifer was offered for the Temple) was, according to Jewish History, a DEPRESSED Altar or a "Hole in the Ground"! The "depressed Altar" complimented the "raised Altar" of Mount Moriah. Spiritually and physically the two worked as one! It took both, for the Temple to function! Christ (Messiah) is the fulfilling of both Altars... they will come together as one when He is in the Temple, ruling as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
It is recorded that the Altar, as a "hole", was approximately 9 to 12 feet deep and 12 to 15 feet across (or each side). Remember that Ezekiel 43:21 states that this Altar "the Appointed Place", is part of the Temple! All ash from cremated Sin offerings on Mount Moriah were taken there. The bodies of the Bullocks were cremated there.
A very important facet , which usually is not realized, is almost every evening a wind will begin to blow in Jerusalem from the West towards the East! Living here we were amazed when this "dawned" on us!
The majority of ash in the Miphkad Altar would have then been blown to the East, away from the Temple site, away from God! Your sin (transgressions) will be removed as far as the East is from the West, which would also point to the fact that the crucifixion of Christ occurred on the Mount of Olives. Psalms103:12, "As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us". The EAST and the WEST! Psalms 48:1 and 2, "Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Tsion, on the sides of the north, the city of thegreat King". The sides of the north are EAST and WEST! The ash was blown EAST towards and into the Dead Sea from the "hole in the ground"! Not only was all sin represented at the Miphkad Altar but it was depressed, a hole in the ground! It could not have been any worse, separated from God. But that representation of total sin was mixed with water to become the Water of Purification, Numbers 19:9
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First, a comment on the last letter concerning the "Depressed Altar" (i.e. the "Hole in the Ground" on the top of the Mt. of Olives too which all Ash from the Sin cremations of the Temple, on Mount Moriah, were taken and also where the "Bullocks" (whose blood was used in the Temple) were cremated. Very close friends... made the comment:
"Then, . as the wind would blow each evening from the West, away from God, towards the EAST then it would create a vacuum as it blew over the Depressed (Miphkad) Altar! The vacuum would literally pull all Ash out of the hole, . even the corner remnants! NO vestige, NO remnant, No spec of Ash would be left representing sin! God literally would remove the symbol of sin (the Ash) as far as the East is from the West!"
toddlemom January 7th, 2007 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dramama (Post 3729029)
Joel,
doesn't the red heifer have to be at least two years old? Is there an age limit (like it can't be over 5)?
I'm not Joel but technically, it's a heifer until it has its first calf, usually at age 2. Then it's a first-calf heifer. Then once it's bred back and has another calf, it's a red cow.
With embryo transfer and other techniques, if they found a cow and bull they like, they could super-ovulate the cow, flush out the embryos and put them in recipients -- then could have half a dozen or so to choose from.
If that were kosher ... :noidea
Israel has some of the most advanced agricultural technology in the world, so anything is possible. There might be red-heifer projects all over the place!
YSIC
ann
Cognac January 7th, 2007 02:20 PM
There was an article on the Temple Institutes site which talked about a genetic breeding program to produce red heifers. however I can't find the article in their search engine at this time.